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This group studies Baroque art history of Italy, Spain and the Netherlands.

This study group examines the history of art in three of the most important art-producing centers of the seventeenth century. It follows the first two units of a course available at The Saylor Foundation. By the time we finish this course, we will be familiar with the most important art and artists of Western Baroque art. Familiarity with art history is helpful, but not requried.

The course lasts for four weeks, each week being completed at your own pace. We will respond to the material covered on the course "Activity Wall" and will schedule a weekly chat for more structured discussion time.

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Liz Lebrun

Liz Lebrun at Baroque Art of Italy, Spain, and the Netherlands

posted message: Hello, Participants! We're at mid-week now and I thought I'd throw out a general discussion question to you all to get the gears in motion. I'd love to hear your thoughts. And feel free to post your own questions & comments to get discussion moving! Question: What traits do the following sculptures by Bernini share: David, Pluto and Proserpina, and Apollo and Daphne? What would you say is quintessentially "Baroque" about these traits and why are they important?

13 Jul 2011 via courses.p2pu.org

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Kevin July 13, 2011, 11:26 p.m.

All of these depict highly emotional scenes - scenes of violence or near-violence. There is preparation for battle, capture, and pursuit. The sculptures are not static - they come at you. It also seems that the fall of light on the sculptures plays an important role - light and darkness work together to give the impression of real action frozen.

The quintessentially Baroque in these works include the strong visually emotional elements. These are scenes of high drama. Through the whole body - but particularly the facial expressions of the main figures - we are drawn to what the characters are feeling. In addition, the attention to realistic detail is amazing, particularly in Pluto and Proserpina. The hands of Pluto grabbing at Proserpina's thigh look like real hands grasping real flesh.

I think these traits are important because, as I understand it, they are such a departure from earlier Renaissance art, particularly that of the Mannerists, who emphasized ideals and the intellect. In these statues of Bernini, the inner feeling of each character is expressed in face and body. These are not intellectual - their portrayals of determination, horror, amusement, and desperation hit you viscerally.
Kim Davison July 14, 2011, 12:04 a.m.
In Reply To: Kevin July 13, 2011, 11:26 p.m.

I was thinking that Mannerists were into exaggeration, elongation, and so on. I am thinking of El Greco right now. In which case, you can kind of see a connection - a "through-line" from Renaissance to Baroque. But, I probably need to read a little more about the Mannerists.
Kim Davison July 14, 2011, 12:14 a.m.
In Reply To: Kevin July 13, 2011, 11:26 p.m.

I, too, was stuck by the alive look of Pluto's hand grabbing Proserpina's thigh. It was amazing! In fact, if you just looked at that one detail, it almost looked like a gentle caress.

After reading the essays about art and the counter-reformation, I have to admit that I was surprised to see non-Christian sculptures. I had almost started to think that all art in that era was Christian art.
Kim Davison July 13, 2011, 7:58 p.m.

These three sculptures all show a lot of motion. The twisting produces the same effect as the chiaroscuro used in paintings. It forces - or directs - the viewer's attention to isolated parts of the composition. The emotionality of the subjects is heightened, drawing in the viewer. Bernini gives the same treatment to Christian as well as "Pagan" stories. The main thing here is that Bernini is telling a story in stone - not making a portrait. I also find it interesting to jump a few years up to Bernini from Caravaggio. It makes me wonder about the similarities and differences between the two artists.
Kevin July 13, 2011, 11:31 p.m.
In Reply To: Kim Davison July 13, 2011, 7:58 p.m.

Great point, Kim, about the story-telling that is going on here. You know there is action before and after. And you even know from the sculptures approximately what the action is before and after.

I think you capture a big connection between Bernini and Caravaggio - each is a story-teller that tries to get the details right in order to make the story come alive.
Kim Davison July 14, 2011, 12:08 a.m.
In Reply To: Kevin July 13, 2011, 11:31 p.m.

I was thinking about the doors of of the Florence Baptistry, and the difference in the nature of the story telling between then and the Baroque era. I went and looked at them just now, because I didn't have a really clear mental image of them. Some elements were familiar, which must have been what I was remembering, but the difference is really striking.